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“Aspiration” – Revisited

I wanted to go back and look at an older post I did on U4A. After all this time I keep coming back to this theory. We’ve discussed so many theories of what really happened to Ayla but in my opinion this is what most likely happened. I left all the old comments so we could compare what we thought then verses now. What do you think now?

February 7, 2013mountain mamaUncategorized

Aspiration?

This is another scenario in what may have happened to Ayla. This is not an accusation nor are we stating it as a fact. In our last post we talked about how much blood a small cut would produce. If something like this occurred it would explain Heidi’s statement of 4 pin sized dots of blood and also the Boston station’s source’s account of blood spatter. LE has not confirmed or denied whether there was blood spatter found. Often times when spatter is found it’s associated with a gunshot wound or blunt force trauma, but it can also be caused by aspirated blood and the pattern is very similar.

Warning- I’ve tried to share enough information for you to understand this possibility without being too graphic, but some may want to use caution while reading. I’ve omitted certain parts that I was afraid were too graphic but you can read the entire articles by clicking on the corresponding link.

MSP Van

Aspiration

inhalation of some foreign material; aspiration of vomitus, blood, or mucus may occur when a person is unconscious or under the effects of a general anesthetic, and can be avoided by keeping the head turned to the side and removing all such foreign material from the air passages.

Drug Overdose Overview

Overdoses of drugs or chemicals can be either accidental or intentional. Drug overdoses occur when a person takes more than the medically recommended dose. However, some people may be more sensitive to certain medications so that the high end of the therapeutic range of a drug may be toxic for them.

Illicit drugs, used to get high, may be taken in overdose amounts when a person’s metabolism cannot detoxify the drug fast enough to avoid unintended side effects

Drug overdoses can involve people of any age. It is most common in very young children (from crawling age to about 5 years) and among teenagers to those in their mid-30s.

Drug Overdose Causes

The cause of a drug overdose is either by accidental overuse or by intentional misuse. Accidental overdoses result from either a young child or an adult with impaired mental abilities swallowing a medication left within their grasp. An adult (especially elderly persons or people taking many medications) can mistakenly ingest the incorrect medication or take the wrong dose of a medication. Purposeful overdoses are for a desired effect, either to get high or to harm oneself.

  • Young children may swallow drugs by accident because of their curiosity about medications they may find. Children younger than 5 years (especially 6 months to 3 years) tend to place everything they find into their mouths. Drug overdoses in this age group are generally caused when someone accidentally leaves a medication within the child’s reachToddlers, when they find medications, often share them with other children. Therefore, if you suspect an overdose in one child while other children are around, those other children may have taken the medication too.

Drug Overdose Symptoms

Drugs have effects on the entire body. Generally, in an overdose, the effects of the drug may be a heightened level of the therapeutic effects seen with regular use. In overdose, side effects become more pronounced, and other effects can take place, which would not occur with normal use. Large overdoses of some medications cause only minimal effects, while smaller overdoses of other medications can cause severe effects, possibly death. A single dose of some medications can be lethal to a young child. Some overdoses may worsen a person’s chronic disease. For example, an asthma attack or chest pains may be triggered.

  • Problems with vital signs (temperature, pulse rate, respiratory rate, blood pressure) are possible and can be life threatening. Vital sign values can be increased, decreased, or completely absent.
  • Sleepiness, confusion, and coma are common and can be dangerous if the person breathes vomit into the lungs (aspirated).
  • Skin can be cool and sweaty, or hot and dry.
  • Chest pain is possible and can be caused by heart or lung damage. Shortness of breath may occur. Breathing may get rapid, slow, deep, or shallow.
  • Abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea are possible. Vomiting blood, or blood in bowel movements, can be life threatening.
  • Specific drugs can damage specific organs, depending on the drug.

MSP Lab Van

OxyContin

In addition to the long-term health issues that the drug can create, the opiate carries an exceedingly high risk of overdose. Often caused by crushing the pill to bypass the drug’s otherwise metered release, OxyContin overdoses can be quickly fatal. Signs of overdose can include loss of motor skills, cardiac arrest, slowed or halted breathing, and profuse sweating. According to the Iowa Department of Public Safety’s Division of Narcotics Enforcement, other signs associated with overdose are clammy skin, glazed eyes or a “distant” look, strong headaches and slurring of the speech. Nausea and vomiting can also indicate an overdose, causing a risk of aspiration. OxyContin overdose can result in loss of consciousness, brain damage, coma and death.

From Law Enforcement Training Network

Bloodstain Evidence in Shooting Incidents

Aspirated blood — spatter produced by sneezing or coughing with blood in airways

HVIS — high velocity impact spatter; typically produced by gunshots

III. INTRODUCTION

Bloodstain evidence is common in shooting incidents. The most characteristic blood spatter that is produced is high velocity impact spatter (HVIS) is that caused by the impact of the projectile with the body.

HVIS actually consists of a range of sizes, all typically less than 0.1 mm in diameter.

Subsequent to the HVIS, there will often be blood spatter in the medium and low velocity range (1-3 mm diameter).

This can be confusing to the uninitiated and sometimes puzzling to even the more experienced investigator.

An additional consideration is the possible presence of aspirated blood that often mimics HVIS in appearance.

IV. KEY POINTS

• Blood spatter due to projectile impacts is categorized as high velocity impact spatter (HVIS).

• The forces that produce HVIS blood spatter are associated with velocities of 100 feet/second or more.

• HVIS travels a maximum of about 4 feet horizontally.

Aspirated blood can resemble HVIS.

V. OUTLINE

It is common for there to be multiple-sized stains in a given pattern of bloodstains present at a crime scene.

It is the spatter size that is in predominance that determines the responsible force (assuming multiple events are not being represented).

Because blood exhibits some rather unique properties, the behavior of blood in response to external forces and in flight is also rather unique.

*Sneezing or coughing by bleeding victims with bloody air passages can produce aspirated blood that often has the appearance of HVIS.

Aspirated Blood and HVIS

Whenever the investigator finds what appears to be HVIS at a scene, it is imperative that it be established whether or not blood was present in the air passages of the victim.

When someone coughs or sneezes while blood is present in the airways, spatter resembling HVIS can be produced.

Sometimes it will be possible to recognize the spatter as aspirated blood due to the fisheye appearance of the dried droplets.

This is the result of air mixing with the blood.

Similarly, the presence of saliva can produce a visible effect.

The enzyme amylase can also be present as an indicator of aspirated blood rather than HVIS.

It should be noted that the absence of amylase is insufficient evidence to rule out aspirated blood as the source of a stain pattern.

The information in this report in my opinion is too graphic to include on U4A. You can go to the link and read for yourself if you wish, I think there’s a lot of information that could be relevant to Ayla’s case.

MSP Mobile Lab

Differentiating High Velocity Blood Spatter Patterns, Expirated Bloodstains, and Insect Activity

Kimberly Clark
Something I noticed while reading this article:

The second subcommittee is the Training and Education Subcommittee.  The members of this subcommittee have been tasked with developing guidelines for the basic educational and training requirements for practicing bloodstain pattern analysts and the basic content of specialized training courses in BPA.  The training and Education Subcommittee is chaired by Heather Seubert of the FBI Laboratory.  The remaining members of this group include Kenneth Martin of the Massachusetts State Police, Paul Kish of Forensic Consultant & Associates, Toby Wolson of the Miami-Dade Police Department, Richard Eikelenboom of Independent Forensic Services in The Netherlands, and Pat Laturnus of the Ontario Police College.

Remember this?

A pickup truck with Massachusetts license plates was parked nearby, as was a Maine detective’s car. A man wearing a Massachusetts State Police jacket also was on the scene.

McCausland said Massachusetts detectives offered special investigative equipment to aid in the investigation.

“And we took them up on the offer,” he said.

McCausland declined to provide details on the equipment and its uses.

And this?

Two weeks after Ayla Reynolds went missing, evidence technicians from Massachusetts joined Maine State Police crime scene investigators on Friday at the Waterville home where the girl was last seen by her father. The home 75 miles north of Portland now sits empty, surrounded by yellow crime scene tape.

Hours later, Waterville police Chief Joseph Massey announced Friday night that the case “has evolved from the search for a missing child to a criminal investigation.

Maine State Police Tip Line  –   207-624-7076

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137 Responses to “Poll Question #13 – Part II “Aspiration””

  • John P says:

    I would like to thank Mountain Mama for putting this peice together for us as a part 2 to the poll question. With the talk so far of aspiration and spatter, she wanted to help us all understand more about why we were discussing it.

    Notice you can still vote on this add on page or the previous post. Comments can also be made on both pages.

  • John P says:

    These three statements from the post are just far to much to be coincidental, IMO. The Massachusetts forensics, detectives and investigators are experts in this area and were on scene from very early in the investigation.

    The remaining members of this group include Kenneth Martin of the Massachusetts State Police, Paul Kish of Forensic Consultant & Associates, Toby Wolson of the Miami-Dade Police Department,

    McCausland said Massachusetts detectives offered special investigative equipment to aid in the investigation.

    Two weeks after Ayla Reynolds went missing, evidence technicians from Massachusetts joined Maine State Police crime scene investigators on Friday at the Waterville home where the girl was last seen by her father.

    • I agree John. This is what I was referring to when I said that whoever was responsible for watching Ayla may have felt it was an accident. Justin said that “Ayla” broke her arm, not that Ayla’s arm was broken. If this scenario is correct, would someone say, Ayla got into the pills and took them? In other words blaming Ayla for what happened?

      • John P says:

        And if there were some pills, or other substance, ingested while they were doing something illegal, it would clearly explain why Ayla was not taken to the ER, why 911 was not called, and why they cleaned up the basement before 911 was called.

        And if Ayla did cough, it would clearly explain several questions. Why LE was so interested in the blood spots circled on the basement floor. Was it possibly this was the reason why luminol was used for a missing child? And so much more, is explained if this is the case.

      • From what I read it’s important to determine from the remains if there was aspiration. If no body is found it would be more difficult to determine the cause of spatter. Not impossible but it would probably slow things down some.

        It is hard to think of Ayla in any of these scenarios but from LE has said it’s hard to ignore it. 😦

      • Chicky says:

        I wonder if they found saliva in the visable blood.

      • John P says:

        It is not saliva that worries me. According to the NH crime lab it would have had to still be wet or damp to hold dna. But it does bring up a good timeline if it were damp and if saliva were still present

      • Chicky says:

        Hmm, has to be damp or wet to get dna? That does not make sense to me.

      • What doesn’t make sense to me is why the blood stain analysts from Massachusetts would come to 29 Violette Ave for 4 tiny drops of blood.

      • Chicky says:

        Don’t they get DNA from dried saliva on a ciggarette butt?

      • Chicky says:

        Yes, Mama, I think there was more.

      • John P says:

        Sorry Mama, my computer seems to be lagging behind big time. But you make a great point about why have Mass State Analysts for 4 spots? There had to be much more to warrant this team of experts to go to 29 Violette.

        Chicky, I think you are right about dried cells on butts being used for DNA but was it cells or the saliva. I am going off of memory since my external drive crashed and I have not been able to recover it yet. 😦

      • John P says:

        A great friend just sent me this.

        Dried saliva, however, would be difficult for investigators to find, because there aren’t chemical agents to detect its presence, she said. Investigators would almost have to find saliva by accident, she said.
        Blood is much easier to find, she said.

        http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/Ayla-Reynolds-case-If-its-DNA-its-probably-blood-expert-says.html

        It is detectable once dried but very hard to find and there are no chemicals to detect saliva. This is what I should have said. Thank you Chicky for the correction.

  • Crime Scene Response Unit

    The Crime Scene Response Unit is responsible for consultation and/or on-site technical assistance to law enforcement officials at many types of crime scenes such as shootings, beatings, stabbings, sexual assaults, hit and runs, and breaking and entering cases. Crime Scene Response Unit chemists recognize, document, test, collect, transport, analyze, interpret, and testify to the significance of physical and biological evidence such as blood, semen, hairs, fibers, paints, soil, glass, gunshot residues, and other materials. They provide on-site presumptive testing for blood, semen, and gunshot residues which quickly supplies information to aid in the ongoing investigation. They also recognize, test, and **analyze bloodstain pattern evidence** in order to aid in the reconstruction of bloodshed events.
    http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-enforce-and-cj/criminal-investig/crime-lab/sections-and-units/crime-scene-response-unit.html

    • John P says:

      Crime Scene Response Unit chemists recognize, document, test, collect, transport, analyze, interpret, and testify to the significance of physical and biological evidence such as blood, semen, hairs, fibers, paints, soil, glass, gunshot residues, and other materials.

      It just keeps filling in all the peices Mama. Hairs, fibers, and other materials.

  • Chicky says:

    Two weeks after Ayla Reynolds went missing, evidence technicians from Massachusetts joined Maine State Police crime scene investigators on Friday at the Waterville home where the girl was last seen by her father. The home 75 miles north of Portland now sits empty, surrounded by yellow crime scene tape.

    Hours later, Waterville police Chief Joseph Massey announced Friday night that the case “has evolved from the search for a missing child to a criminal investigation.

    Sounds like they had good reson to announce that!
    Thank you Mama, you put so much work and heart into these posts that are important and relevant.

  • cg says:

    MM, great find!
    I have some doubts about possible accidental drug overdose. The blood was by Justin’s bed in the basement. If Ayla had a medical crisis there, where was he? I doubt she’d have been alone in the basement. One question I have is could they have induced vomiting instead of taking her to a hospital rather than risk the drugs being detected and then found her unresponsive or worse later nevertheless? If that happened, would there be any evidence left to keep them from taking her to the ER then?
    I also find a drug overdose less likely due the life insurance policy and broken arm. The broken arm (preceded by sprained muscle?) shows a pattern of worsening physical mistreatment. Blood on the floor and missing baby is a natural progression. LIP is strong potential motive. Drug overdose is random, incidental.

    • Wasn’t some of the blood by the stairs according to Heidi or Selena? I can’t remember who said it. It’s possible *if* this happened that Ayla would’ve become drowsy and if she were downstairs with Justin,he would’ve laid her on his bed.

      • Chicky says:

        Yes, heidi said the pin point size blood spots were at the bottom of the stairs. Nice of her to let us know that , and from what she described it appeared to be spatter rather than drops.. I don’t know that I would have taken out my phone and snapped a pic of it like she did.

      • John P says:

        Chicky, I’ve got a feeling that Heidi knows there was much more than the 4 drops she took a pic of, then posted and then deleted!

    • John P says:

      CG, is it possible that two LIP’s were purchased to launder money? I know we talk about this a while back, but we know know that Derek had several friends, and himself, that he had “done the same thing for”. So how many friends other than Justin could not afford LIP’s but he set them up anyways? I am thinking that the policies were for laundering and not so much a premeditation.

      And add that to Mamas comment and it appears it could be a possibility.

    • Emerald says:

      CG,
      our running hypothesis currently is that JD was there, with Derek, sleeping off the night before, while Ayla was babysitting herself in front of the TV…she got into their drugs, and OD’d trying to crawl up next to her sleeping father for comfort, and they found her when they woke up…I have posted this theory several times since last year, as it makes the most sense, and it fits why the blood would be by the bed, and why no ER visit, and why they might see it as “Ayla’s” fault, an unintentional accident, like the arm break…scared of calling LE due to drugs…makes too much sense unfortunately…

      • CG says:

        it does fit. throw the LIP out as something J did to help D or maybe to impress D. This theory would explain P’s going public to say there wasn’t a party– too close to home. They all “alert” and deny whenever drugs are mentioned. I had thought it was due to allegations of J being a low level dealer and B’s arrest but perhaps this is the reason.

        How much and howvwidespead blood would aspiration likely produce? would it explain all the scrambling around (bringing in a new bed and potentially tossing evidence in the stream?)

      • John P says:

        Going along the same hypothesis as Emerald stated, if J was a low level dealer as speculated, then the two LIPs would make sense for laundering, CG. And Brianne could have been the middle dealer that supplied J & D with about $200 worth of drugs at a time. And even the LIPs start fitting into the hypothesis a little.

        Question for you CG. If Ayla, God Forbid, did ingest, is it possible that a cough or sneeze produced the small spots at the stairs on her way to get comfort from her sleeping dad? The area around the bed is cleaned up but they do not see the spots in their haste to make everything look normal before anyone else finds out?

      • cg says:

        That’s the million dollar question.

      • CG from what I’ve read possibly 4 feet.

      • Emerald says:

        I’ve seen patients aspirate blood, vomit, alcohol and water, and even excessive saliva and mucus(dying patient), then violently choke/sneeze it out while trying to gasp for breath… and later had to clean it off the walls and ceiling more than 6 feet away…it would be much less force for a child, but think of when you accidentally get a lung full of water, or coffee down the wrong tube…and spray it everywhere in a mist of droplets…what ever happened down in that basement left droplets, as Heidi so carefully pointed out, tiny ones…

      • John P says:

        Mama & Emerald, I know you have read alot on this and I m finding it very reading myself. But from your reading and your comments here, I would assume that aspiration from a child does not possess the velocity of an adult nor would there be as many spots from a toddler. Is this fairly accurate to say in your opinions.

  • cg says:

    amateur investigator seeking to save someone’s hide perhaps?

  • addie says:

    I’m so sad and crying…sweet baby Ayla…why?????

  • Chicky says:

    They can test for saliva in blood by testing for amylase which is an enzyme that is abundant in saliva.

    • John P says:

      Chicky, I have also posted a snippet by Heidi below the Tell flier in the post above. I think it proves that both families were told of the “more than a small cut would produce.” This tells me with the presence of the Mass. analysts that there was much more than 4 spots.

      It also seems to show either Justin is lying to Heidi about the pictures he was shown or Heidi is lying about what she was told?

      • Chicky says:

        I never doubted that they were all lying about something, they pick and choose their sensitive areas.

      • addie says:

        Heidi doesn’t seem to know what she is talking about. She must make stuff up as she types.

      • addie says:

        Shes just all over the place.

      • John P says:

        I agree Chicky and Addie. Heidi is all over but states everything as if it is facts.

      • Justin DiPietro wouldn’t speak at length about the discovery of blood. He said police showed him evidence of “a few drops.”
        “It is a fact that her blood was found in my house. Yes, it is a fact that she broke her arm in my house. But, it is not a fact that any of it was intentional.
        “My daughter did not come to her demise down in my house. Nothing bad ever happened to my daughter in my house. She never got anything but love from the people in this house,” he said.
        http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/where-is-my-daughter__2012-03-29.html

      • John P says:

        That middle line blames Ayla for all her injuries like she did it herself. And to lie about to the media, then to later get called out on it only further affirms he is hiding everything he can. And what if Ayla’s blood was unintentional. He didn’t mean for her to get ahold of his stash and eat it. That would cause it to be unintentional in his mind? How can anyone rationalize that? Or is it he is saying that to get people to keep quiet, yet he knows it is negligent homocide and that is why the cover-up occured?

  • January 9, 2012
    Portland woman arrested for selling Oxycodone
    According to a press release issued today by Kevin Cashman, supervisor for the Maine Drug Enforcement Agency, MDEA agents and Portland police arrested 23-year-old Brianna Roberts last Friday night.

    Cashman said authorities began an investigation after receiving complaints of suspected drug activity at 36 Pine St.

    During a search of the residence, police say they located and seized 998 Oxycodone pills that Roberts had stashed in baggies and concealed on her body.

    Agents also seized 19 grams of suspected cocaine with an estimated street value of $1,900 from a bedroom. http://www.pressherald.com/news/Portland-woman-arrested-for-selling-Oxycodone-.html

    ** This was written on 1/9/12 so Friday would’ve been 1/6/12. Exactly one week after Massachusetts State Police went to 29 Violette Ave.

    • John P says:

      And then a week or so after this was there not a report of 11 or 12 people being arrested, all in the Waterville area, and all on drug charges as well? It seemed to me early on that Ayla’s case turned into a drug case very early on and this is why McCausland said the case was far reaching or made a comment about the magnitude of the case?

      • Interesting comment from Scout

        Scout says:
        July 19, 2012 at 2:18 pm
        “Reposting at John’s request:

        Did a little poking around over at http://www.pacer.gov at lunch today – the site gives anyone access to federal court documents. You need to set up an account with a credit card but with low usage, you don’t get charged (I never have).

        Anyway, turns out Briana Roberts entered a guilty plea to two federal drug trafficing charges on 7/12. The plea agreement calls for no more than 37 months in jail. She remains out on bond until her sentencing hearing on 11/5/12.

        She was selling drugs for Christopher Brichetto. Does that name mean anything to anyone? Doesn’t ring a bell to me.

        There is an additional document entitled “Mandatory Plea Agreement Supplement” that is sealed. I am really curious about that document.”
        http://united4ayla.com/revisited-timeline/

  • jenn says:

    Special unit ” Major Crime Unit” with Maine State Police took the lead role in the investigation on 12/30 & on that same day police chief Massey announced foul play was suspected in the toddlers dissappearance.
    “If there is a homicide, we intervene immediately ” McCausland said. The division investigates all homicides in Maine with the exception if Bangor and Portland.
    This unit belongs to the largest police agency in the state. (18 detectives,3 sergeants). Assets include Crime Laboratory in Augusta, Mobile command center, an evidence response team and more.
    CSI Evidence techs from Massachusetts were @ the Dipietro home looking in a specific area near a shed in the backyard. Hundredths of pieces of evidence was collected from the inside of the Violette Ave. home that leads to the conclusion of foul play. Evidence that wad residual, or inadvertently left behind & evidence that had been discarded. Likely MSP have established probable cause and now it’s a matter of getting to the truth, what makes sense& what does not.

    There has been a multitude of agencies efforts to locate Ayla.
    The Waterville Police Department, Waterville Fire Department,Maine State Warden Services (flyover), Maine State Police Evidence Recovery Team, Waterville Police Detective Division, MSP Majors Crime Unit (18 detectives & 3 Sergeants), CSI Tech Team from Massachusetts, FBI, MSP K9 tracking dog, Airboats/ divers, Maine Game Wardens (75 officers specially trained in search and rescue), Assistant Attorney General Bill Stokes, Top homicide Prosecutor Andrew Benson, and more.

    So I think you get my point, all of these experienced police detectives cannot be incompetent as the Dipietro and HT would like us to believe.

    • Jenn do you have a link for this? I’ve been trying to find more info on this subject.

      “CSI Evidence techs from Massachusetts were @ the Dipietro home looking in a specific area near a shed in the backyard. Hundredths of pieces of evidence was collected from the inside of the Violette Ave. home that leads to the conclusion of foul play. Evidence that wad residual, or inadvertently left behind & evidence that had been discarded. Likely MSP have established probable cause and now it’s a matter of getting to the truth, what makes sense& what does not.”

      • Just so you know Jenn, I’m not doubting you but everytime I find a link with info on the interest of CSI at the shed or dogs at the shed, the article has been removed, all I can find is C&Ps from the original articles. If you can find an article I would greatly appreciate it.

  • Trial starts in 2008 overdose death of toddler
    18-month-old found pill in pants pocket

    Mr. Czambel, 27, of Oakdale voluntarily called police and spoke to them in May 2008, telling them that he believed the little girl had gotten a hold of that half a pill he left in his pajamas.
    “He admits he’s careless, probably because of his addiction,” Ms. Pellegrini said. “By his reckless conduct and gross negligence, he allowed little Caitlin to ingest an OxyContin.”
    But defense attorney Paul Gettleman told the jury that the case should never have been brought to trial.
    The medical examiner found that Caitlin’s cause of death was accidental.
    “That’s what this was. It was an accident,” he said. “It was a tragedy. The fact that this little child didn’t even get to live makes it exponentially more difficult.”
    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-west/trial-starts-in-2008-overdose-death-of-toddler-637311/

    • John P says:

      Absolute travesty and tragedy. And to think there are those that would classify this an accident. The children did not go out and buy illegal drugs!!!!

      • John in this particular case the man was addicted to the pain killer that his doctor prescribed, so it wasn’t a case of illegal drugs but it is still going to court. There are many cases however where toddlers have died from over doses of illegal drugs.

  • Many Toddlers Wind Up in ER After Accidental Overdose

    TUESDAY, Dec. 13, 2011 (HealthDay News) — Each year in the United States, one of every 150 two-year-olds visits an emergency room for treatment of an accidental medication overdose, a new government report shows.

    Most of these cases occur when unsupervised children eat or drink medicines they find at home, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. http://www.everydayhealth.com/kids-health/1213/many-toddlers-wind-up-in-er-after-accidental-overdose.aspx

  • concerned mother says:

    I am just curious to know what the investigators are actually doing to bring Ayla home. I live on the other side of the country and have watched this from the first day. As a mother, I am disgusted that nothing is being done. Isn’t there something they can do to force the three in the house to talk? Can they give the friends family that they stayed with a lie detector? No one should get away with hurting a child and if it was a kidnapping, no one should get away with that either? Are there not laws in place to help investigators get the person who took or hurt Ayla?

    • John P says:

      Concerned Mother, that I am aware of there has been no talk of the families friends having been administered polys. They may have but I do not know of any. As for making them talk, there would have to be a plea deal for that to happen IMO. I would give it a bit longer to try and avoid that if possible and if it were me. We do not know what LE has done or offered in this area.

    • Chicky says:

      Concerned Mother ~ Le is doing everything they possibly can to bring Ayla home. Ayla could be anywhere and without the guilty party fessing up it is not an easy task to locate her.
      How do we make them talk? Well, we can’t do it the old fashion way.

      • John P says:

        Though there are times when the old fashioned way is better than todays technologically advanced ways. Back in the day, our children were priority and today it seems to often they are not. 😦

      • Chicky says:

        I guess being arrested may get someone to talk
        but other than the old fashioned way (giving them
        a solid shaking? ) you can’t drag any info out .
        Truth serum??? Guess that’s not legal either. (Does that exist?)

      • John P says:

        Yes Chicky, Thiopenthal, or Sodium Pentathol are a few of the drugs that can reduce a persons ability to resist. At least according to a quick google search. But I doubt that is legal investigative techniques within the US.

      • Chicky says:

        Yeah, I doubt it too John, I was’nt serious anyway..but.. wish it were that simple.

      • John P says:

        I wish it were too Chicky.

  • jenn says:

    Reply to MM regarding link to CSI and hundredths of pieces of evidence from above.
    My reply obtained information from various news sources and articles. Below are the links. I hope it is usefull. By the way, great job on all that you do for Ayla and being her voice when she cannot speak. The truth will prevail.

    http://Boston.cbslocal.com/2011/12/30/more-crime-tape-at-fathers-house-of-missing-maine-toddler

    http://www.kjonline.com/news/special-unit-investigates-ayla-reynolds-disappearance_2012-01-04.html

    http://www.wabi.tv/news/26403/ayla-reynolds-update-forensic-team-back-at-violette-ave-home

    There is also a lot of imbedded news links that.are very informative here:

    http://www.cheri.griffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=156&t=9715&start=30#p96029

  • Chicky says:

    OT…With the two storms merging creating a classic Nor’easter I wish that everyone stay safe and off the roads. Mass has a manatory ban on vehicles on any roads and New Hampshire a voluntary effort starting at 7pm. Boston predictions 3 feet of snow, Portland 2 feet plus, my area 18 to 20 inches. Wind gusts up to 70 miles per hour and very low temps.
    I’m prepared for power outages and trying to hook a motor on my shovel but no luck with that yet!
    Praying for those who have no secondary heat source ans please, safely check in with neighbors and in particular those who are elderly.

  • Sara says:

    Heidi said they showed Justin 4 small dots,then why did Justin say he was shown the blood evidence, but he’s not sure of the amount? Wouldn’t he remember if it was 4 small dots? Phoebe said the DNA might not be blood,if Ayla is alive why can’t she say except for the 4 drops the DNA they found IS Not blood? She can’t say it . Explain that Hedi.

    • addie says:

      Yeah right…Heidi does not and will not answer our questions. She knows with every line she spews out she only implicates the truth. So the questions that would get justice for little Ayla don’t get answered. Not even do they get answered but they also don’t get mentioned. Like the call to HER SON DEREK before 911. She has never spoken one word about this.

    • John P says:

      Sara and Addie, you are both right on point. So when is anyone that claims Ayla was kidnapped, going to start explaining how MSP and LE in general are all wrong that a kidnapping did not happen? They simply pull at heartstrings for a missing angel and say ignor everything, don’t ask any questions and look for a kidnapper. All that accomplishes is for Ayla to be forgotten from the mainstream media. 😦

      • Chicky says:

        I’m sure they are very concerned for Ayla’s safety and well being with this unknown kidnapper. (I don’t think kidnappers are nice).
        Has anyone seen or heard that they are? I can’t imagin that they would not be. If they are not, well, um..somthing is REALLY wrong!

      • John P says:

        Actually Chicky, the only thing in regards to your question I remember hearing is that Justin thought at one point maybe the kidnapper thought they would provide a better life for Ayla or something like that anyways.

  • John P says:

    OT, I just got a pic from Portland showing cars covered over with snow. For all of you in all of New England, stay warm, stay safe, and stay inside until Nemo is gone. Be safe cleaning up afterwards also. When you can let us know you are all okay!!!

  • Sara says:

    What I want to hear from Phoebe and Justin is there is 4 drops of blood,no more than that just like they told Hedi.They can’t say it.What I want to hear from Justin is that there was no clean up,What I want to see is him having an age progression photo done himself ,he approved one only after Trista asked for it to be taken down,If you wanted A photo Justin why didnt you do one? You approved it through Hedi,you can’t speak 2 words for Ayla by yourself .Does anyone else find Hedi and Justins relationship very strange or is it just me? Her husband hasn’t said one word to defend Justin! There is no way I would let my best friends Mommy speak for me and defend me for 13 months.

    • John P says:

      He did not ask for one of the photos to be made because he know LE waits on average 24 months after a child disappears before thier experts do the photos. At least that is what my research showed. I think it was done solely to torture Trista after she asked for it to be taken down.

      As for you other comments you want to hear, I too want to hear it and I want to hear Heidi, Justin and Derek say the call to Derek before 911 was not made. These are all things I doubt they will ever say because they know it is all true. Heidi is not IMO speaking for Justin, but for her own son who is tied so closely to Justin that it appears she is speaking for Justin. All what I thought was JMO, but apparently it’s not JMO.

      • Chicky says:

        I agree John, I think they were all jumping for joy that they had another chance to torture Trista, that know darn well how a mother would feel especially that it was not done professionally and the woman who did it had no intentions on honoring Tristas wishes what so ever.
        I find it odd to say the least that if justin wants a mommy to speak for him and Ayla why not his own. Phobes, hey Phobes, you have a Grandaughter you know.
        Oh, wait, my bad, heidi speaks for justin, not for Ayla.

  • margyf1 says:

    Hey John:
    In Maine near Bangor the winds are gusting 50 + mph. The winds are really intensifying now and I’m amazed we still have power. Heating with 2 pellet stoves so cozy warm. It was a challenge for my Chihuahua Liza to go potty outside. She was dressed with 3 layers of long fleece and this morning she just pooped but not peed. Managed to take her out a while ago again during a short lull in the wind and she peed buckets. Definitely not a climate for a taco dog but she will not relieve herself in the house. She was only out just seconds.

    I heard that too about the $500 fine in Mass if out there driving. It would be impossible to be out in this and survive.

    So 4-5 feet in drifts. Wow it it windy. Yikes!

    Thinking about Ayla and hope there is a break in this ordeal soon.

    Write more later…Stay safe everyone.

    • John P says:

      Margy, you keep those pellet stoves going, take care of the taco dog 😉 and stay safe. Thanks for checking in and letting us know how you are copeing. 🙂

    • addie says:

      Lol Margy I’m in waterville and its the same situation here with my Chi I opened the door and he squated on the threshold.

      • margyf1 says:

        Ha Addie:
        Bet our Chis wish they were back in Mexico. Took a look at my drive way and snow is so deep. This is beyond shoveling, trying to get a plow guy for tomorrow.

        Wish there was enough evidence in this case to bring it to the grand jury now. The more I read about this case, it seems astonishing to me that no arrests have been made. It’s obvious who the players are. So frustrating.

      • John P says:

        Honestly Margy, I am not surprised yet. I do think there is alot to it that we are not familiar with yet. Though I truely wish that Ayla could have been given justice by this point!

  • Korrigan says:

    I hope that you all are staying safe on the East Coast and don’t hurt yourselves while shoveling.

  • addie says:

    I have an OT that relates to the 3 911 calls Jd made. There is something called voice stress analyst. Experts Can determine high stress points within a statement. If no high stressers are found they can determine that the call was rehearsed. I cant copy and paste info on this right now. But you can google it.

  • addie says:

    There are also medium velocity impact spatter patterns, not only high. Very similar but different.

    • I agree Addie the reason we were looking at high velocity is because Heidi stated they were the size of a pin dot, which would fall under the 1mm or smaller category. With medium velocity you’re looking at 1mm to 3mm sized drops.

      • addie says:

        Gotcha

      • addie says:

        Your so knowledgeable Mama.

      • Nope Addie, I’m not, I’m wondering if it could mean medium velocity. If the dots were close to 1mm they might fall in either category. We’re also going on Heidi’s word …..

      • addie says:

        Well we all know HT lies. To me saying pin drop size would be an lie. I think circled or not pin drop would seem almost invisible to the naked eye. Although I did not see the pics she posted so I cant say for sure that yes they were visible. But a pin like a sewing pin is what I am assuming she meant. That is very very small. I don’t think even with my glasses on would I be able to see that never mind in a cell phone pic.

      • John P says:

        You are right Addie on both counts, Mama is very knowledgable and a great researcher of information and knowing how to present it to us so we can understand. And in that pin sized spots would not be visible to the eye at a glance, so one of a few things made them look closer or they are underexaggerating the size pictured so they could take minimize the presence of the blood spots like they have minimized everything else.

  • jenn says:

    Reply to MM regarding information on K 9 dogs and shed @ the Violette Avenue property. Below are the links that reference cadaver dogs and the Dipietro house, shed & garage search.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1112/20/ng.01.html

    http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/search-for-Ayla-Reynolds-continues-today.html
    “Nine cadaver dogs from both agencies joined the search.”

    Tweet – On Dec 18 Danielle Waugh reporter for WLBZ2 & WCS#6
    “Police searching family’s home on Violette Ave. with K9 unit specifically the garage.”

    • Thank you Jenn, did you notice none of them say shed? They all say garage, I’m thinking they came back to the shed at a later date. Except the one at the Hathaway building.

      • So they used the K9 unit on the 18th for the garage and the house but they didn’t focus on the shed until the 30th.

      • John P says:

        What could possibly have had the LE use K9 on the day after the 911 calls? Or is this something that is standard practice. I would ask my LE riends but I wont see them for a while.

      • I think they were S&R dogs John, not cadaver and it’s pretty standard procedure to use them in a missing child case right away.

  • jenn says:

    Sorry, I forgot to add the article that mentions the shed . It’s under “Was Ayla Reynolds truly abducted? Dec. 30, 2011.

  • Emerald says:

    I have a few questions perhaps someone can answer…

    1) Heidi said Justin saved $40 on his multi-line insurance for : 1 LIP for him, 1 for Ayla, and vehicle insurance on his SUV…how much is a typical discount for that company for a combined policy, a male at his age, young and healthy, and hers, so young?
    2) If a typical discount is say, 15% that would make his monthly combined bill approx. $266.00 a month…we also know he was unemployed, so how was it that he paid the premiums or monthly payments if he was not drawing state benefits like TANF? We all suspect he sold drugs on the side to make up the difference in income from not working, perhaps that is the laundering angle…the premiums and monthly dues are perhaps drug funded via Courtney’s sister Brianna, to JD to DT…this is perhaps how JD covers the rest of his monthly bills like beer, cigarettes, diapers, food, etc…and so the LIP is also then perhaps unrelated, and had nothing to do with what happened to Ayla (premeditation), rather she fell victim to hideous criminal neglect, and to avoid consequences was hidden away…
    3) LE never searched or examined Derek Tudela’s vehicle, did they? I suspect he is the “person of interest to the case” cited in the news clip when JD was seen and caught on camera with two men at the Portland Cumby’s buying smokes at 2 am on the 15th…one man was yet unidentified to LE, the other was known to them, and was called a person of interest…Play-date anyone?

    • Chicky says:

      He may have recieved a discount for multi policy but there is no way that the entire bill was 40 dollars less than what he was paying for having one policy for his vehicle..
      If this were the case everyone would have life insurance policies..hey it’s free, better than that in essence they pay you to have it! Nice deal!
      If I insure my two vehicles, home, and life i will get a discount for multi policies BUT it is not going to be less expensive than to insure my one vehicle.

      • cg says:

        Chicky, if he paid lesser auto ins. rate for moving to W the savings could have paid for the LIP.

      • Chicky says:

        We had to switch place of residence for my daughter from small town to city and it changed by two dollars only. I still do not think there is any way that the cost of car insurance alone was more expensive than car insurance and two life insurance policies. The diff between two cities would not cover that I do not believe.JMO

      • Korrigan says:

        You also have to put into consideration his driving record and his age. If he has been in several accidents, his premiums could be quite high.

      • Chicky says:

        I get a combination policy credit of $101.00.. per year so approx $8.50 per month. I also get $34.00 discount per year for being a loyal customer so justin would not benifit from that.

      • John P says:

        In all honesty, when this bears out, I think we will find Heidi saying it was only meant to mean that he would save $40 on his car insurance but then when you add the costs of the LIPs then it would be much higher. It is IMO a case of lying by omission. He well may save 40 bucks on the multi-policy and different cities, but it is only the car ins, the rest is not being spoken of IMO.

      • Chicky says:

        I agree John.

      • John P says:

        I have to agree with Emerald and CG. As a younger male smoker, the monthly rate for a LIP on himself would have been twice what the auto insurance was itself. This is from personnal experience as my son is 27, he has auto and I asked him to get a quote for 100K policy on himself as a smoker. His premiums for the LIP was $2 dolars shy of double the auto insurance policy. And this does not include the policy on Ayla as I already have a $5K policy on my grandbabies Gor Forbid they are ever needed. So the original pollicy for car, double that for the LIP on himself, add Aylas policy and moving to a new city wit no job????????

  • addie says:

    Emerald I know before we spoke of the policy’s and how Jd is a smoker so his rates wouldn’t have been lower infact his rate would have been higher. So I guess the only reason if it was lower and he got a discount its because he lied. Like you said tho Heidi is the one who gave this information. I think heidi would lie to her mother about her birth date.
    We don’t know for sure if Jd got tanf or if he sold drugs. So we can only think for our selves on that one as to what u think his source of income was. I think it was tanf and selling drugs. Although I don’t think he made much of a profit selling because he had to support his habit.
    Lastly the person of interest in the mystery mobile I think you are right. I think it was Derek.

    • addie says:

      Sorry we don’t know if dereks car was searched.

    • John P says:

      Addie, question for you. If you know, I dont know if you would know or not but if you don’t maybe someone else would. We know from Trista (meaning LE has not verified) that the policy was dated exactly 6 weeks before Ayla was reported missing. Which would mean the policy would have been purchased less than 2 weeks after Justin took Ayla from Lewiston. So with that, could he have had TANF to pay the premium activation fees for each policy and the first months premiums that are traditionally due when starting new policies? I do not think TANF was a possibility that is why I am asking.

      • Chicky says:

        John, I don’t know for sure but I think if justin applied that the monies may be there failry quickly. It can be direct deposited into ones bank account, sent by check in the mail, or electronically put onto a EBT card (like a debit card) That can happen as soon as the application is approved which can be basically bedone right away.
        He may have to provide proof that he is paying rent.
        I am not sure what their rules are on using the money to pay on life insurance policies, the monies are not there for that purpose but to provide shelter for the child.

      • addie says:

        It depends on what time of the moth he went an applied for tanf. He would only get a full months benefits if he went in on the first and even then he wouldn’t get it that day. You have to do an aspire orientation first. Regardless it would have been prorated. And it would be less than say 280$ for a family of two.

      • John P says:

        Thank you for answering the questions Chicky and Addy. It does not really matter I guess if it would only be $280 since when my son went to check on a policy for himself, with the satr-up fees for himself only to get a LIP for 100K and car insurance started he had to have over $400 so either Phoebe was payin the start-up fees or Derek paid them or therewas something not legit with it. Either way the TANF would only cover the monthly bills and would leave nothing to buy food, diapers, clothes, etc for Ayla.

  • Rose City Oregon says:

    I am not trying to cause trouble, but the things “someone” you all know is writing on the pink blog about the mother of a missing child is really going to far, in my opinion. Is that really necessary? How does that bring justice to Ayla? Also, I am perplexed that someone would praise the same blog that supposedly created such turmoil for this person and their family members. If this posting is inappropriate here, please remove it, John.

    • Rose City Oregon says:

      ‘too’ far, not ‘to’…..

    • Chicky says:

      Rose, I guess that each of us chooses our own path to follow for whatever reasons.
      One may find anothers path distastefull and wonder why they choose the route they do.
      We can all only do what we feel is right .
      For myself, I would not want to take the chance of getting burned a second time but that is not my choice to make.

      • Rose City Oregon says:

        Thank you for your response, Chicky. I agree with you. I guess that I am just really surprised. Spreading unfounded rumors just seems to detract from where the focus should be–finding Ayla and bringing justice to those responsible for her demise.

      • So sad and true ROC. Poor sweet Ayla.

      • Chicky says:

        I agree Rose.

      • Rose City Oregon says:

        I hate going to that blog, but I will occasionally to debunk and refute the nastiness. I am just really disturbed by the latest posts and comments. I wasn’t going to mention it here, sorry.

      • John P says:

        Do not be sorry RCO, you stated your opinion respectfully. I happen to agree with both you and Chicky and Mama on this matter that each is entitled to thier own path, and each of us are entitled to disagree if we chose to. I do not want those thoughts posted here and the name of the post will be deleted if posted here. Everything about those latest few posts over there is in my opinion is exactly as Dana B said, completely irrelevant to Ayla’s disappearance so I would prefer to ignor them myself.

      • Rose City Oregon says:

        Thank you, John for understanding what i was trying to write. Sorry that I can’t participate here much. My four children and college really overwhelm me. My eldest is going through the college admissions and financial aid process, and we have to meet the endless deadlines. But, I read here at least once a day, no matter what. I am so looking forward to justice for Ayla. You are such a wonderful voice for Ayla and her mother!

  • jenn says:

    MM,
    Were you able to find the article referenceing the shed from the victims heart land Link provided above? I know there was a lot of info. & articles to read through, but it was under the article titled “Was Ayla Reynolds truly abducted?”
    “The backyard of the property was “roped off” and the agents were focusing on a shed. The question remains here: What took so long to do this? It seems that they’ve already used cadaver dogs & have been to the Dipietro residence more than enough times by now that they should’ve already known every inch of that property. Could they have been waiting for a search warrant?”

    Sorry the WABI link did not work for you. I was able to access it earlier in the week from my phone but not my iPad and now I cannot access it at all. Anyway , when I originally saw the link I wrote down the info. In case I wanted to reference it later.

    12/30/11 “State Police forensic team was back there again today and ropped off the part of the backyard near the shed.”

    • Chicky and I have been trying to find out why the link wouldn’t work for close to 2 weeks. She’s still waiting for another reply from Poindexter. There are 5 articles from different sites that have been removed pertaining to this. I found what you were referring to but I was trying to find something from the media and this (I think) was an opinion from a commentator much like some of our comments. Fortunately I’ve completed the post, thank you for all your digging Jenn.

 
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